Peter Arnett's interview of Osama bin Laden in 1997
Osama Bin Ladin was interviewed in eastern Afghanistan in late March 1997.
Questions were submitted in advance. Bin Ladin responded to almost all of the questions.
ARNETT: Mr. Bin Ladin, could you give us your main criticism of the Saudi royal Family
that is ruling Saudi Arabia today?
MR. BIN LADIN: Regarding the criticisms of the ruling regime in Saudi Arabia and the
Arabian peninsula, the first one is their subordination to the US. So, our main problem is
the US government while the Saudi regime is but a branch or an agent of the US.
REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, if the Islamic movement takes over Saudi Arabia, what
would your attitude to the West be and will the price of oil be higher?
BIN LADIN: As for oil, it is a commodity that will be subject to the price of the market
according to supply and demand. We believe that the current prices are not realistic due
to the Saudi regime playing the role of a US agent and the pressures exercised by the US
on the Saudi regime to increase production and flooding the market that caused a sharp
decrease in oil prices.
REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, you've declared a jihad against the United States. Can you tell
us why? And is the jihad directed against the US government or the United States' troops
in Arabia? What about US civilians in Arabia or the people of the United States?
BIN LADIN: We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is
unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous
and criminal whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation of the
Prophet's Night Travel Land (Palestine). And we believe the US is directly responsible for
those who were killed in Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. The mention of the US reminds us
before everything else of those innocent children who were dismembered, their heads and
arms cut off in the recent explosion that took place in Qana (in Lebanon). This US
government abandoned even humanitarian feelings by these hideous crimes. It transgressed
all bounds and behaved in a way not witnessed before by any power or any imperialist power
in the world. They should have been considerate that the qibla (Mecca) of the Muslims
upheaves the emotion of the entire Muslim World. Due to its subordination to the Jews the
arrogance and haughtiness of the US regime has reached, to the extent that they occupied
the qibla of the Muslims (Arabia) who are more than a billion in the world today. A
reaction might take place as a result of US government's hitting Muslim civilians and
executing more than 600 thousand Muslim children in Iraq by preventing food and medicine
from reaching them. So, the US is responsible for any reaction, because it extended its
war against troops to civilians. This is what we say. As for what you asked regarding the
American people, they are not exonerated from responsibility, because they chose this
government and voted for it despite their knowledge of its crimes in Palestine, Lebanon,
Iraq and in other places and its support of its agent regimes who filled our prisons with
our best children and scholars. We ask that may God release them.
REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, what was the significance of the Afgan war for the Islamic
movement? Veterans of that war are fighting for Islamic movements and conflicts from the
former Soviet republics such as Chechnya to Bosnia to Algeria. Can you explain that
phenomemon to us?
BIN LADIN: The influence of the Afghan jihad on the Islamic world was so great and it
necessitates that people should rise above many of their differences and unite their
efforts against their enemy. Today, the nation is interacting well by uniting its efforts
through jihad against the US which has in collaboration with the Israeli government led
the ferocious campaign against the Islamic World in occupying the holy sites of the
Muslims. As for the young men who participated in jihad here, their number, by the grace
of God, was quite big, Praise and Gratitude be to Him, and they spread in every place in
which non-believers' injustice is perpetuated against Muslims.
REPORTER: Can you tell us now about your expulsion from Saudi Arabia and your time you
spent in Sudan and your arrival here in Afganistan?
BIN LADIN: I was, by the grace of God, Praise and Glory be to Him, in the great spot that
is dear to God, Praise and Glory be to Him, al-hijaz, especially Venerable Mecca, where is
God's Ancient House. However, the Saudi regime imposed on the people a life that does not
appeal to the free believer. They wanted the people to eat and drink and celebrate the
praise of God, but if the people wanted to encourage what is right and forbid what is
wrong, they can't. Rather, the regime dismisses them from their jobs and in the event they
continued to do so, they are detained in prisons. I have rejected to live this submissive
life, by God's favor, Praise and Gratitude be to Him, that is not befitting of man let
alone a believer. So, I waited for the chance until, God, Praise and Glory be to Him, has
made it possible for me to leave the country of the Two Holy Places. I hope God, Praise
and Glory be to Him, would confer upon me His favor to return one day when God's law rules
in that country. I went to the Sudan and stayed there for about five years during which I
visited Afghanistan and Pakistan to work against the Communist government in Kabul. When
the Saudi government transgressed in oppressing all voices of the scholars and the voices
of those who call for Islam, I found myself forced, especially after the government
prevented Sheik Salman al-Awdah and Sheik Safar al-Hawali and some other scholars, to
carry out a small part of my duty of enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong.
So, I collaborated with some brothers and established a committee for offering advice and
we started to publish some declarations. (The Advice and Reformation Committee). However,
the Saudi regime did not like this and started to exercise pressure on the Sudanese
regime. The US government, the Egyptian government and the Yemeni government also helped
in doing so. They requested me explicitly from the Sudanese regime and the pressure
continued. Saudi Arabia dropped all of its conditions put to the Sudanese regime in return
that I be driven out of the Sudan. The US government had already taken the same stance and
pulled out its diplomatic mission from Khartoum and put forth their condition to return
only after I have left. Unfortunately, the Sudanese government was in some difficult
circumstances and there was a tendency inside the government that was inclined to
reconciliation or surrender. Then, when they insisted initially that I should keep my
mouth shut, I decided to look for a land in which I can breathe a pure, free air to
perform my duty in enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong. I ask God, Praise
and Glory be to Him, for increase in prosperity for this great land, the Land of Khurasan
(Afghanistan) in order to carry on this duty. So, we implore God, Praise and Glory be to
Him, that He accept (our deeds) from us and the Muslims.
Now, the United States government says that you are still funding military training camps
here in Afganistan for militant, Islamic fighters and that you are a sponser of
international terrorism; but others describe you as the new hero of the Arab-Islamic
world. Are these accusations true? How do you describe yourself?
BIN LADIN: After the collapse of the Soviet Union in which the US has no mentionable role,
but rather the credit goes to God, Praise and Glory be to Him, and the Mujahidin in
Afghanistan, this collapse made the US more haughty and arrogant and it has started to
look at itself as a Master of this world and established what it calls the new world
order. It wanted to delude people that it can do whatever it wants, but it can't do this.
It leveled against me and others as many accusations as it desired and wished. It is these
(accusations) that you mentioned. The US today as a result of the arrogant atmosphere has
set a double standard, calling whoever goes against its injustice a terrorist. It wants to
occupy our countries, steal our resources, impose on us agents to rule us based not on
what God has revealed and wants us to agree on all these. If we refuse to do so, it will
say you are terrorists. With a simple look at the US behaviors, we find that it judges the
behavior of the poor Palestinian children whose country was occupied: if they throw stones
against the Israeli occupation, it says they are terrorists whereas when the Israeli
pilots bombed the United Nations building in Qana, Lebanon while was full of children and
women, the US stopped any plan to condemn Israel. Wherever we look, we find the US as the
leader of terrorism and crime in the world. The US does not consider it terrorism when
hundreds of thousands of our sons and brothers in Iraq died for lack of food or medicine.
So, there is no base for what the US says and this saying does not affect us, because we,
by the grace of God, are dependent on Him, Praise and Glory be to Him, getting help from
Him against the US. As for the last part of your question, we are fulfilling a duty which
God, Praise and Glory be to Him, decreed for us. We look upon those heroes, those men who
undertook to kill the American occupiers in Riyadh and Khobar (Dhahran). We describe those
as heroes and describe them as men. They have pulled down the disgrace and submissiveness
off the forehead of their nation. We ask Allah, Praise and Glory be to Him, to accept them
as martyrs.
Q) Do you think there will be more bombing attacks on American troops in Saudi Arabia? or
attacks on American civilians in Saudi Arabia? or will there be assassination attempts on
the Saudi Arabian ruling family?
BIN LADIN: It is known that every action has its reaction. If the American presence
continues, and that is an action, then it is natural for reactions to continue against
this presence. In other words, explosions and killings of the American soldiers would
continue. These are the troops who left their country and their families and came here
with all arrogance to steal our oil and disgrace us, and attack our religion. As for what
was mentioned about the ruling (Saudi) family those in charge, do bear the full
responsibility of everything that may happen. They are the shadow of the American
presence. The people and the young men are concentrating their efforts on the sponsor and
not on the sponsored. The concentration at this point of Jihad is against the American
occupiers.
Q) What are your views about Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman and have you ever met him? Do you
know him?
BIN LADIN: Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman is a Muslim scholar well-known all over the Muslim
world. He represents the kind of injustice that is adopted by the U.S. A baseless case was
fabricated against him even though he is a blind old man. We ask Allah, The Almighty, to
relieve him. The U.S. sentenced him to hundreds of years just to please its caprice and
the whims of the Egyptian regime. He is now very badly treated and in no way fit for an
old man like him or any Muslim scholar. (Comment: bin Laden here infers that the Egyptian
government lacks legitimacy, that it serves the interests of the U.S. My thought,
considering the billions of dollars which we lavish on them so that they will leave Israel
alone, they better. Sorry Omar, in the grand scheme of things, you are just a pawn. Right
and honor be damned.)
Q) The U.S. State Department quoting a Pakistani official says that Ramzi Yousef, a
convicted bomber in the World Trade Center in New York City stayed in the house you funded
in Peshawar, Pakistan for those receiving training during the Afghan conflict after the
Trade Center bombing, is that true? Did Ramzi Yousef stay in your house in Peshawar?
BIN LADIN: I do not know Ramzi Yousef. What the American government and Pakistani
intelligence has been reporting is not true at all. But I say if the American government
is serious about avoiding the explosions inside the U.S., then let it stop provoking the
feelings of 1,250 million Muslims. Those hundreds of thousands who have been killed or
displaced in Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, do have brothers and relatives. They would make of
Ramzi Yousef a symbol and a teacher. The U.S. will drive them to transfer the battle into
the United States. Everything is made possible to protect the blood of the American
citizen while the bloodshed of Muslims is allowed in every place. With this kind of
behavior, the U.S. government is hurting itself, hurting Muslims and hurting the American
people.
Q) Mr. Bin Ladin, were you involved in financing the bombing of the World Trade Center in
New York City? (Comment: Of course, this is not a fair question, the man is being asked to
hand over his head, of course he did not. The answer is meaningless.)
BIN LADIN: I have no connection or relation with this explosion.
Q) Mr. Bin Ladin, in a recent interview with an Arabic newspaper, you said that Arabs who
fought in the Afghan war killed U.S. troops in Mogadishu, Somalia. Can you tell us about
that?
BIN LADIN: The U.S. government went there with great pride and stayed there for some time
with a strong media presence wanting to frighten people that it is the greatest power on
earth. It went there with pride and with over 28,000 soldiers, to a poor unarmed people in
Somalia. The goal of this was to scare the Muslim world and the whole world saying that it
is able to do whatever it desires. As soon as the troops reached the Mogadishu beaches,
they found no one but children. The CNN and other media cameras started photographing them
(the soldiers) with their camouflage and heavy arms, entering with a parade crawling (on
the ground) and showing themselves to the world as the "greatest power on
earth". Resistance started against the American invasion, because Muslims do not
believe the U.S. allegations that they came to save the Somalis.A man with human feelings
in his heart does not distinguish between a child killed in Palestine or in Lebanon, in
Iraq or in Bosnia. So how can we believe your claims that you came to save our children in
Somalia while you kill our children in all of those places?
With Allah's grace, Muslims over there, cooperated with some Arab "Mujahideen"
who were in Afghanistan. They participated with their brothers in Somalia against the
American occupation troops and killed large numbers of them. The American administration
was aware of that. After a little resistance, The American troops left after achieving
nothing. They left after claiming that they were the largest power on earth. They left
after some resistance from powerless, poor, unarmed people whose only weapon is the belief
in Allah The Almighty, and who do not fear the fabricated American media lies. We learned
from those who fought there, that they were surprised to see the low spiritual morale of
the American fighters in comparison with the experience they had with the Russian
fighters. The Americans ran away from those fighters who fought and killed them, while the
latter were still there. If the U.S. still thinks and brags that it still has this kind of
power even after all these successive defeats in Vietnam, Beirut, Aden, and Somalia, then
let them go back to those who are awaiting its return.
Q) Mr. Bin Lladin, your family is a rich powerful family in Saudi Arabia. Have they, or
the Saudi Arabian government asked you to stop your activities?
BIN LADIN: They have done that a lot. They have pressured us a lot, especially since a lot
of our money is still in the hands of the Saudi ruling family due to activities of the our
family and company (Saudi construction giant, the BinLadin Group). They sent me my mother,
my uncle, and my brothers in almost nine visits to Khartoum (Sudan) asking me to stop and
return to Arabia to apologize to King Fahd. I apologized to my family kindly because I
know that they were driven by force to come to talk to me. This regime wants to create a
problem between me and my family and in order to take some measures against them. But,
with Allah's grace, this regime did not get its wish fulfilled. I refused to go back. They
(my family) conveyed the Saudi government's message that if I did not go back, they'll
freeze all my assets, deprive me of my citizenship, my passport, and my Saudi I.D. and
distort my picture in the Saudi and foreign media. They think that a Muslim may bargain on
his religion. I said to them do whatever you may wish. It is with Allah's bounty, we
refused to go back. We are living in dignity and honor for whom we thank Allah. It is much
better for us to live under a tree here on these mountains than to live in palaces in the
most sacred land to Allah, while being subjected to disgrace not worshipping Allah even in
the most sacred land on earth, where injustice is so widespread. There is no strength
except with Allah.
Q) Mr. Bin Ladin, have Saudi agents attempted to assassinate you? Are you targeted by the
U.S. government? Are you in fact in fear of your life?
BIN LADIN: The U.S. pressures are no secret to you. The Saudi pressures are also in
response to American pressures. There were several attempts to arrest me or to assassinate
me. This has been going on for more than seven years. With Allah's grace, none of these
attempts succeeded. This is a proof in itself to Muslims and to the world that the U.S. is
incapable and weaker than the picture it wants to draw in people's mind. A believer must
rest assured that life is only in the hands of Allah, and sustenance is also in the hands
of Allah, the Almighty. As for fearing for one's life, it is difficult to explain to you
how we think of ourselves, unless you have full belief. We believe that no one could take
out one breath of our written life as ordained by Allah. We see that we see that getting
killed in the cause of Allah is a great honor wished for by our Prophet (PBUH). He said in
his Hadith: "I swear to Allah, I wish to fight for Allah's cause and be killed, I'll
do it again and be killed, and I'll do it again and be killed". Being killed for
Allah's cause is a great honor achieved by only those who are the elite of the nation. We
love this kind of death for Allah's cause as much as you like to live. We have nothing to
fear for. It is something we wish for.
Q) What are your future plans?
BIN LADIN: You'll see them and hear about them in the media, God willing.
Q) Mr. Bin Ladin, if you had an opportunity to give a message to President Clinton, what
would that message be?
BIN LADIN: Mentioning the name of Clinton or that of the American government provokes
disgust and revulsion. This is because the name of the American government and the name of
Clinton and Bush directly reflect in our minds the picture of children with their heads
cut off before even reaching one year of age. It reflects the picture of children with
their hands cut off, the picture of the children who died in Iraq, the picture of the
hands of the Isrealis with weapons destroying our children. The hearts of Muslims are
filled with hatred towards the United States of America and the American president The
President has a heart that knows no words. A heart that kills hundreds of children
definitely, knows no words. Our people in the Arabian Peninsula will sent him messages
with no words because he does not know any words. If there is a message that I may send
through you, then it is a message I address to the mothers of the American troops who came
here with their military uniform walking proudly up and down our land while the scholars
of our country are thrown in prisons. I say that this represents an a blatant provocation
to 1,250 million Muslims. To these mothers I say if they are concerned for their sons,
then let them object to the American government's policy and to the American president. Do
not let themselves be cheated by his standing before the bodies of the killed soldiers
describing the freedom fighters in Saudi Arabia as terrorists. It is he who is a terrorist
who pushed their sons into this for the sake of the Isreali interest. We believe that the
American army in Saudi Arabia came to separate between the Muslims and the people for not
ruling in accordance with Allah's wish. They came to be in support of the Israeli forces
in occupied Palestine, the land of the "Israa" of our Prophet (PBUH).
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